Glad to see you blogging for HBS. You're my favorite interpersonal-advice giver. What I'd add to what you say is that people's adrenal gland--odd as that may sound--has a huge impact on a person's ability to be as controlled as you recommend. People with overactive adrenal glands (The people who go from 0-60 in one second in response to stress), really need to put themselves in situations which do not stress them unduly. For example, if you have a boss who drives you nuts, you really need to think about getting a transfer or finding a new job, so you can follow the excellent advice you provide in this blog post.

Excellent points about "how" you say what you say can overwhelm and already as you say "constricted" mind. I certainly have experienced that when people have talked over or at me instead of to or with me. I would appreciate if you had any tips about "what" to say when you're talking to or with someone who is anxious. Thanks.

Great insights! My personal takeaway is understanding that neuroanatomic breakdown in the anxious person's mind. Thinking about it that way helps me feel more prepared to deal with my next encounter with an anxious person. I can see that my effectiveness depends upon how I help that person move from an anxious state. And I think this will help me feel less anxious in the process. Thanks!

Great visual tip-offs Mark - you are going to put media and corporate coaches out of business with this type of information. With more than 50% visual in sending a message, these are great tips. It would be nice to know how to break down the barrier in the first place and get people ready to listen when they are set on not hearing what you have to say in the first place.

Found this extremely useful

Very good reminders. The challenge is in being able to stand back yourself and analyze the other person's language as opposed to reacting to it.

When you are "talking at" someone another good body language indicator is when the person you are talking at punches you in the nose.

Great blog, BTW!

Brilliant information! It's a great reminder that the communicator bears the responsibility for the message. Like, don't go and tell an already anxious person to "Calm down" or "Don't be so sensitive" as it ensures an escalation in anxiety for both parties. In addition, I love the visual about putting the arm around the shoulder like a loving grandparent. What a nice goal in a situation like that.

I always find Dr. Goulston's comments useful, but in the current business climate, I think these insights are critical. Being able to tune your mode of expression to an individual and read their response is vital to your success and well-being. Keep writing and thank you!

Just great stuff! I couldn't help but see the striking similarity between the first two indicators of "talking over them" or "talking at them" with what our current President has done for the past seven years. It's no wonder his popularity is in the potty. However, I am thoroughly engaged with the Democratic candidate from the South Side of Chicago who makes a concerted effort of "talking to" and "talking with" - makes me feel engaged and hopeful.

I look forward to more of Goulston's insights...

Mark, your comments do a great job in emphasizing how good leaders use resources to get buy in and accomplish otherwise difficult tasks. Every great leader has the ability to get people to go the extra mile in support of the leader.

Leon

Great info. Thank You for helping more people to become self aware. Communication is a powerful tool.

Thanks for sharing your unique ability to observe life and teach us all such valuable lessons.

Dr. Goulston has a unique talent to combine the science with the practical on challenging topics. I agree that when people are talking there is a tendency to talk over people. Dr. Goulston has provided the awareness for people to actually make a connection instead of being talked over.
I applaud Dr. Goulston's insights.
Bruce A. Heller, Ph.D.

Dr. Goulston addressed the dilemnas I experienced as an entry level employee and now as the manager of my own company. I appreciate his practical and effective techniques ("the more you talk to an anxious person -- or even better yet, with them ") to help recognize these symptoms and respond more effectively.
I hope to hear more from Dr. Goulston.
Gail Meyer

So many opportunities in business and life are missed because we aren't really communicating with our conversation partners. Mark's advice to keep attuned to anxious people's unspoken language is a valuable lesson to learn if you want to be a master communicator!

Todd Albertson
Author of VISION CASTER and THE GODS OF BUSINESS

The use of the term "mind" over "brain" is telling, but problematic: Philosophically and semantically, the 'mind' is not a locatable locus. The brain is a venue, a physiological site. But the good doctor tells us 'the mind that is anxious constricts.' In fact, we are not certain at all what this means; our responses and defenses are marshalled to react, yes. But the mind is a free-floating essence that cannot and does not constrict. It parses, observes, moves on--a host of reactions and initiatives that are apart from the physiological brain attached plainly to the rest of the apparatus of the body. Insofar as 'talking to' and 'talking over,' the candidate from Chicago is a slickster who bears little resemblance in many minds--especially now that his mendacity and prevarications are being slowly disintermediated from his huckster messaging of the past careful constructions of the campaign trail--to the honest plaintalk that is a hallmark of President Bush. The current Chief Executive is a guileless man who does not play games with language and legal minutiae, as does the male candidate from Chicago's corruptocratic precincts. Obama's manipulative tricks are there for all to see, if one but looks: The studied and obnoxious use of 8 rigid US flags to do his patriotic work for him. The loaded usage of heavy opprobrious words spoken in dulcet and modulated tones when he addresses his co-religionist's bigotry and rancidity. The equally disingenuous tones when he refers meanly to his opponents or Geraldine Ferraro--mischaracterizing her brief and accurate poltiical observation--or his earnest and blameless still-extant grandmother. Other verbal pyrotechnics take his responses out of the realm of 'talk to' and 'talk with' into the less attractive, and less useful, 'talk against' mode. He is not really there. He is erecting elegant straw men --that don't exist-- against his assumed interlocutor, then superciliously demolishes them, he thinks. In reality, he is talking to himself only, not to us, or to his interviewers. He has, indeed, mastered the illusionist's sleight of hand: Faux sincerity. It remains for the rest of the population to cotton onto this dangerous Esau feigning the gentility of Isaac. His grubby fur pelt of malice and gloved claw is under his Brooks Brothers attire, but it is still odoriferous and menacing for all his malign glitter.

Interesting article and thought provoking . Read all replies to date and will learn from what others post to the Dr's article. To treat others farily one has to keep our own ego in check and maintain humility. Hope to read much more of the good Dr's articles.

Regards:
Alan Millhone, President
American Checker Federation
www.usacheckers.com

I've read Dr Goulston's commentary elsewhere on the web and I think it's fantastic he's joining Harvard Business. His comments are good, practical, actionable ideas that I use every day in my business and personal lives. And he's great at tying in his own personal experiences, learning from them, in a constructive fashion. Welcome aboard.

What great insight! I just witnessed several of those patterns recenlty. To have the explanations truly helps to understand what was taking place and for me to gain more empathy for each individual. Thanks Mark very much for sharing :)

Well you can talk to an anxious person, but I've found you can't get into too much trouble if you listen to them instead.

Remember, you are facing a living human being, not a mass of neurons and glands. When I am listening to somebody, words like "neuroanatomically" and "mammalian brain" or "reptilian brain" never enter my mind.

Don't make this too hard.

I receive your usable insights and I find it to contain great nuggets of wealth. Short and concise. I find it as a way to keep me on track toward my goals.

Great to see you here!!!!

SJL.

Just another great post by one of the America's better bloggers. The ideas and "meals" you have shared for me and my family are priceless. I've always considered your writings "must reading". Some things will never change!!!

This was a fascinating and erudite column about what anxiety does to the brain.

"What a buffoon, I'm outta' here at the next break."

LMAO when I read that.

Very good information.

One technique that sometimes seems to help is to first start a conversation on a positive note and to honestly discuss something good that the other person has done or is doing.

Anxiety seems to have a cascading component to it and if the conversation starts out on the wrong note things can go downhill very quickly. Perhaps getting out of formal office setting and attire and keeping the message focused on one specific thing rather than trying to throw too much at the anxious person at one time would be helpful too.

This was a fascinating and erudite column about what anxiety does to the brain.

"What a buffoon, I'm outta' here at the next break."

LMAO when I read that.

You have provided many meals for a lifetime in this post.

What a treat to see Dr. Mark on the HBS website. I've followed his advice, or just his lines of reasoning, for ten years, at least, and his insights have never steered me wrong. This particular piece was especially useful. Among other things, it finally explains the feeling some people get, when under such attacks, that their brain just wants to explode. Seems that it really does. Bravo, Dr. Mark!

Hi Mark,

So tell me more about my reptilian brain. I've always wondered why I've been good at catching flies bare-handed. :)

Cheers,
George

Mark,

You never fail to stir up the soup inside our heads. Thank you for your insights, and for reminding us that we're all pretty much going through the same human experience.

Warmly,
David

Sometimes it's not what we say, but how we say it. Thank you for the insightful reminder on being aware of others' body language and
communication hints during difficult or challenging conversations.

One question: You address face to face conversations; how about virtual interactions?

This is such useful information that is practical yet based in science. Your commitment to be of service is always present in your insights and your insights are timeless.

Great tips...very useful indeed.

I always enjoy and appreciate Dr. Mark Goulston's insights, perspectives, and wisdom. I'm looking forward to reading a lot more from him on this site.

Mark's comments are always insightful. I appreciate the ability to communicate simply with memorable messages.

Joel Kabaker

Great stuff. Love the "Seventh game of the NBA finals" analogy, which provides clear perspective on when to talk AT someone. After all, how often are most of us in a comparable situation?)

Mark,

As always, you provide direct, succinct and specific solutions for all of us to use to continue to build positive relationships within our lives. Thank you.

Part of my job in conducting Information Security Assessments is interviewing people and encouraging the interviewees to provide me with information about their systems, their businesses and themselves. Most people are anxious about being interviewed, let alone, providing sensitive information to someone they've just met.

What has worked for me in the past is building trust in that short period of time during the interview. It involves a whole bunch of "talking with them" and not "at them." This includes eye contact, a softer tone, speaking slower, a sincerity of interest in what they have to say, paying attention to my own body language, et al. I will continue to look for other key indicators to make sure I'm not adding to the anxiety.

I entered this site as requested from Daily Speculations. I mean no offence but I cannot wrap my head around what you are trying to accomplish. Perception is Deception. What happens if your perception of an axious person is flawed. Then the indicators are meaningless. There is little difference between a Mad person and a Anxious person. I recommend you communicate with niether.

Also, I hardly believe you require two words for verification. It is an indicator of a very anxious and parnoid individual. The medium is the message.

Thanks Mark! Your advice always helps me in the office...and at home with my teenagers!

Heather Schultz

Very interesting topic Mark - having read seveal books on body-language etc I am struck at the difficulty for an amateur (like myself) to correctly read the language of peoples bodies.

Got the link from DailySpec and I wish you good luck.

/M

This column is humorous, useful, entertaining, and informative. I hope this column becomes a regular one.

I'm on board with all that you preach! I eagerly look forward to what insights you will provide next. Interestingly, all of your theories and concepts tie in nicely to the theories and concepts used in teaching my ExecuProv Public Speaking and Communications Skills workshops, too. It's really nice when people listen and you have such a terrific "voice" for helping others that those who hear you are blessed in more ways than you probably know. Thanks for sharing this with me, Mark, your latest work. I am always englightened reading your stuff...it's such good stuff!!

Cherie Kerr

It's amazing how clear things can become when it's explained in a practical, easy to follow manner! Thanks Dr. Goulston. I've followed your work for more than a year now and we here in The Bahamas really appreciate your insights.

Kirk

I have a slightly different take on Mark's post. While I enjoyed and value all that Mark had to say, as everyone else did, it struck a nerve in a different way. I realized that sometimes I am the anxious one. I'm jutting my chin out. I'm the one who wants "outta there." This post has given me food for thought on recognizing my own anxiety, as well as notice to be on alert for telegraphing signals I may or may not want to in business situations. Thanks Mark!

I've often found Dr. Goulston's ideas to be intelligent and useful. Glad to see he continues the tradition here.

For its tintillating blend of theory and praxis, this is one of the most brilliant and fascinating musings I have ever read on a blog. It has neurology, communication, hierarchy, relationship, advice, and humour all in one. I hope this becomes a regular column.

So true! And deep breathing will keep you calm, and hopefully your calmness will help the other person too.

Like usual,
Mark Goulston's work is that rare combination of being both theoretically sound yet so down to earth, the practicing organizational leader can take the tactics strait to the bank. Who has not encountered a situation where anxiety was creating a barrier to effective communication? I for one will be adding these observations and techniques to my arsenal of managerial tactics. Every time I read Mark’s work, I feel more in touch with the human side of leadership.

I found this useful because although I had often thought of such awareness in business contexts, I do not necessarily think about these "rules" in a personal context. (Rightly or wrongly, I assume I am talking "with" in that context.)

When your final point was about touching, I thought to be more aware in a personal context as well. Thank you.

I agree with Dianne. The most common mistake people make in speaking with an anxious person is to "mirror" that anxiety back by, for example, speaking quickly and in a high pitched tone as if they themselves are anxious. If you can avoid that and speak calmly and with assurance, that helps to dispel the other person's anxiety. Then you can put into practice the more sophisticated points Dr. Goulston makes as well.

Everything you say about talking is true and I can see how one extreme can cause more anxiety and the other extreme can alleviate it. However I think that listening has more of a chance of alleviating anxiety than any of the ways you talk with someone. I would be interested if you, Dr. Mark, could talk about listening and delineate different kinds of listening that might parallel the levels of talking. Great blog. Made me think, in fact I'm still thinking about it.

Thanks for the insights, Mark! Feels just right.

For many of us, this is information for dealing with ourselves, as well as others. If I can recognize these behaviours in myself, I'm half-way there to responding well to them in others. Thanks, Mark, you are full of nuggets of useful ideas.

After your description of anxiety in one's listener, I was struck by the similarity of hypnotism to "talking with" someone. Hypnotists use techniques of tone, cadence, and body language to induce suggestibility. Perhaps "talking with" someone induces heightened suggestibility.

As usual, Dr. G has the ability to filter a subject down into usable tidbits of information that are applicable in everyday life.

I've enjoyed reading Mark's work for several years now and look forward to reading more in the years to come!

Scott Brooks

Mark -
Thank you so much for this! I'm heading into several back to back days of meetings with a client's senior team. I love having these physical cues to watch for and better manage my communications with them.
Thanks for another immediately usable tip.
Linda Feinholz

This is an interesting filter through which to look at the spate of Presidential candidates. It's easy to view Clinton as talking at or over people, Obama as talking to and with people and McCain as talking to people (unless he gets his dander up in which case he talks at people). I also agree that as a country with economic, war, education and health care worries, we are all kind of brittle. If only Hillary could develop a way to talk with us to go along with her command of the issues or if Barack could speak to us with more command of the issues or if McCain could just not be so old and irascible we might have candidates that would inspire more trust, confidence and respect.

Kelly T. O'Brien
Butte, Montana

I am Mark's daughter and I can attest that over the years, the times when he has talked with me when the rest of the world seemed to be talking over or at me has made a world of difference. And yes, talking with someone does help you to exhale and when you do, you actually do relax and can listen better. Thanks Dad.

This is great knowledge for salespeople. Prospects and customers are some of the most anxiety-riddled people I know. These are great markers for salespeople to be able to lower the anxiety levels with their targets. Thanks, Mark!

Mark:

I concur with your approach of talking 'with' people as this matches the approach I use with my clients as I help them be more effective in the way they influence others. Oftentimes, people think of influencing as a one-time transactional event - or even worse, they think of influencing as manipulative. While influencing can be either of those, I help leaders understand the value of building long-term relationships with others so that when the leader needs to influence they will be in a postion to continue talking 'with' others which facilitates and accelerates the influencing process.

Sara Jane
Leadership Coach

Mark. Always love to read your "stuff" and I am glad more and more people have the opportunity to get a taste of your insights. I believe you add a lot to our lives.

Dr. Mark, Your comments are always useful in business and personal matters. Thanks for getting us to think outside the box and grounding us.

I found this to be very helpful!

Any guidepost to effective communication is always on point. Since most people work out of fear or anger, this tool helps to monitor your effectivness in making your point.

Some commentators have suggested "mirroring" to enhance connections. This may be manipulative and cloud focus. The indicators you have identified simplify the attempt to be "in synch" and should be a welcome resource.

Dr. G-

Great article. My wife becomes very anxious in situations where she loses control of events. What is the best way to quickly short circuit this process? I find that I do not react well and typically make things worse with my frustration. Thanks for the work on Specs and elsewhere.

Best,

Mike G.

Mark:

These are points that are extremely well taken. In the heat of the moment, it takes discipline and stepping out of one's own self-talk to observe and take in how one is being perceived.

A few sessions of role playing would be a great way to hone these skills.

Thanks as always!
Cheryl

Mark:

These are points that are extremely well taken. In the heat of the moment, it takes discipline and stepping out of one's own self-talk to observe and take in how one is being perceived.

A few sessions of role playing would be a great way to hone these skills.

Thanks as always!
Cheryl

I see this type of anxiety at my workplace all the time. My employer has had several rounds of layoffs, and any discussion of reorganizing in any way immediately triggers thoughts that more layoffs are coming.

Now if I could just follow all of your wonderful advice. As always, your take is not only useful in the business world but can easily transfer to the personal and intimate worlds as well. (Mark, you rock!!!)

Robin Sax

This is a truly useful information.

Saw a profile of you in a magazine fronted by Katie Couric, and was glad to affix a face to the wisdom. Will gestate more of your posts in the months and years to come, parsing them for useful how-to info and bedrock common sense that is at base uncommon. Lovely to see how many have found their way to this exploration of mind, mores and managing. Bonne chance. Much future in a place of being exceedingly present.

I know what you mean about reading people's body responses, but it sounds like you've been trained to do that and maybe I'm missing something.

There have been a couple of times I've set off roadside bombs, not knowing what the explosion was about or where it came from. The person I'm talking "to" erupts like I'd tripped a wire: "I suggest you figure out what we're doing here before you start telling me how to do it!" And so on ..

What are some of the basic signals people give when they're being talked "at," talked "to" and talked "with?" What are danger signs to look out for? Thanks!

As a Leadership Coach who specializes in helping leaders be more effective in influencing others, like you, Mark, I note that the key to successful influencing is in talking WITH others (as compared to talking 'over' or 'at' or 'to' them). Talking WITH others is a way of demonstrating both credibility and also respect which pave the way for successful influencing.

This was a very helpful and insightful set of comments. The good Dr has provided excellent wisdom on a subject that can be very confusing. I find Mark very lucid on complex topics.

Well done !!

Dr. Goulston, once again you hit the nail on the head. I manage a large group of lawyers, in addition to a non-attorney staff. The lawyers tend to have a thicker skin, although your insights are invaluable as to how to interact effectively with them as well (respect and patience is key at all skill set levels). Even more important, is how partners deal with non-attorney staff, who tend to be much more intimidated and nervous in dyadic encounters. The mode of communication you identify and champion is incredibly important, especially when interacting with those who tend to be the most self conscious and defensive. I'm passing on your article to others on my team, so they are reminded about effective communication skills. No one can run a successful law practice, business (or even family relationships for that matter) without these important skills and approaches.

Excellent article. A lot to think about here.

Love the way you simplify complex things. Thanks, Dr. Mark!

Love the way you simplify complex things. Thanks, Dr. Mark!

Great article, Mark! It fits with what we teach - a communication is only a little bit of what you say with your mouth - your body language, tone of voice, facial expression, eyes, etc., are a substantial part of the message. Likewise, we rarely pay attention to how our communication is being received (the "listening") - having most of our attention on our own thinking - making sure what we are saying reflects what we are thinking. The article will serve our workshop participants well in being able to detect what is the "listening" into which they are speaking and therefore be able to modify their speaking in real time to be more effective.

I've read several pieces by Mark Goulston and heard him speak. He understands business/social dynamics as well as anybody. Great points about staying in tune with body positions -- to position yourself in a winning posture.

Thanks for your insights Mark!Some great takeaways.

great comments--every leader can make this insight work for him/her